View source for Talk:Corner Base

I was there when he teleported me. There are screenshots in the fit video you quoted. As this person on the outskirts of your social circle, you will need to prove it, otherwise or it violates the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view NPOV] principal. - orsond <3
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I recommend that you read [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view NPOV] more carefully. This doctrine presupposes that reliable sources exist. I am sure you understand that FitMC is most decidedly ''not'' a reliable source. Considering your attachment with the topic, (especially considering gains from spreading mistrust as a result of misinformation), I am concerned that you, also, cannot be a reliable narrator on this subject and that a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest] exists for you here. I barely know BIKMUNNI and frankly do not care who leaked this base, but it was zipoffs and not BIKMUNNI that did so. 
<br>

Keeping the above in mind, the next step with NPOV (and the most important part) is that the subject matter discussed is done so in a fair manner. As your first instinct was to post complaints about this on an [https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t_Uncensored/comments/z8g522/sorry_sweetie_i_think_i_would_know_who_teleported/ external platform], it seems you are not interested in fair discussion. 

I am furthermore concerned that you are not dedicated to constructive discussion on the topic at all and would instead prefer to encourage [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tag_team brigading] from an external platform. These activities violate [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith the most basic editing principles]. Beyond this, I furthermore find it incredibly concerning that you, an adult, are so invested in spreading rumors about BIKMUNNI, a child. He's been through enough with the fabricated story about him being broadcast to such a wide audience. Give the guy a break.
<br>

As a sidenote, you can sign messages you post on a discussion page by either typing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>, or by clicking the button that appears like a signature next to the Bold and Itallic buttons on the top left of the source editor.
--[[User:Joey Coconut1|Joey Coconut1]] ([[User talk:Joey Coconut1|talk]]) 04:05, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
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Dear Joe,

Thanks for your concerns. I will address them point for point:

# The reliable primary source is me: the person who was teleported, along with a few others of The Fifth Column team. I shared this story and evident screenshots with FitMC. As you are aware, many factual articles on the wiki are written based on information from primary sources and this article is no different.
# I agree that the reddit post was a bad idea which is why I had removed it within minutes of posting it. My sincere apologies.
# The argument that a subject of an article is "just a child" and therefore should not be mentioned is not historically a editorial standard held on this wiki. I would recommend a change in editorial policy so that all references of minors, regardless of negative or positive actions, from removed from the wiki. This would be a great idea to reduce harm given by any references or mentions in its content. I would not support the removal of this information until this editorial policy changes.
# I appreciate the advice on the signature feature and will make use of it from now on.


[[User:Orsond|Orsond]] ([[User talk:Orsond|talk]]) 04:49, 30 November 2022 (UTC)


'''Orsond's Conflict of Interest'''<br>

Orsond,
As per my previous post, you cannot be considered a reliable source because of significant [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest conflicts of interest] arising from the nature of your involvement in this subject. You have a strong incentive to spread disinformation to promote distrust in organizations in opposition to you, to protect insiders, and to also uphold a public image of protecting insiders. On one hand, you have these obligations, and on the other, upolding basic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view NPOV]. Beyond this, if BIKMUNNI had actually leaked and you had paid him to do so, that would result in a number of ethical issues that may ironically enough further weaken your position. 
<br>

Independent of this, [https://2b2t.miraheze.org/wiki/Orsond your account] and [https://2b2t.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Orsond its usage] on the wiki appear strongly to be a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Single-purpose_account#General_test Single-purpose account]. While a certain degree of additional leeway must exist considering the somewhat limited scope of the 2b2t wiki, this furthermore suggests that you have difficulty in editing in a non-biased manner and avoiding [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#ADVOCACY spreading propaganda] concerning controversial subjects you are involved in. 
<br>

'''Testimony from BIKMUNNI and P529'''<br>

Taking all of this into account, the conflicts of interest on the part of your position on the topic leave these edits on your part rather suspect. Other people that were present should be consulted. I reached out to BIKMUNNI and P529 on discord, and they showed me
#BIKMUNNI's financial records (which have no payments recieved whatsoever in that time period)
#His Proxy's alarm records (which show no contact with any 5th Column-related accounts until the base grief, and then has the accounts orsond, inthekhole, Zetrax, maksitaxi, and BEZ0 appear in render all at once before killing BIKMUNNI's proxy account)
#P529's Direct messages with zipoffs (in which zipoffs admits he had intended to teleport the Fifth Column to the -,- end corner, and that he had worked with badinek concerning this)
<br>

'''BIKMUNNI's Financial Records'''<br>

BIKMUNNI's financial records DO NOT reflect the receipt of ANY payments whatsoever in the time period where it was alleged that he recieved money for access to the -,- end border. The only 'proof' I have seen of such an event occuring, is a screenshot with no context discussing the prospect of selling teleportation to the corner. This is not enough considering that
#Again, BIKMUNNI's financial records do not reflect him recieving any payment of any kind from anyone in the time period in question
#P529 and others also jokingly offered to sell the base. These offers were not built with genuine assent and were designed to be disruptive to Fifth Column's efforts to get the Corner Base. The context that the circulated BIKMUNNI DM screenshots lack would turn those other DMs into similar 'evidence', but, again, they are not so. Those offers lack genuineness of assent and there is no proof that any payment occured. 
<br>
Beyond that, BIKMUNNI never finalized any deal, but was still thanked for doing so over a week after he and orsond had stopped talking. This extended gap casts even more doubt on the existence of any transaction between BIKMUNNI and the Fifth Column whatsoever.
<br>

'''BIKMUNNI's Alarm Proxy Records'''<br>

BIKMUNNI's proxy accounts were equipped with an 'alarm' system that recorded all accounts that entered its render distance. I have examined these records and noticed 3 important details
#Prior to 07/11/2022 4:21 AM in BIKMUNNI's timezone, no accounts owned by Fifth Column members are detected whatsoever
#At 07/11/2022 4:21 AM in BIKMUNNI's timezone, the accounts orsond, inthekhole, Zetrax, maksitaxi, and BEZ0 appear within his accounts render distance and are recorded as such, immediately followed by several others.
#BIKMUNNI's proxy account is killed back to Spawn by a Fifth Column member shortly thereafter. This is hardly the way to treat someone that has just brought you to the most difficult-to-reach location on the server, and it suggests that, again, no deal occurred that involved BIKMUNNI. 
<br>

'''P529 and zipoffs' Discord DMs'''<br>

Contained in P529's discord DMs with zipoffs, zipoffs claimed he had not teleported Fifth Column to the -,- end corner, but also stated that he and badinek had intended to do so in the near future. At face value, this appears to be a blame-shifting tactic that attempts to cast doubt on a narrative where zipoffs leaked instead of BIKMUNNI. Apologizing for something minor to avoid blame for something major is a common tactic. I must acknowledge that through looking into this in particular, I am now also convinced that badinek likely was involved in the leak as well. Regardless, if it were put up to just the zipoffs screenshot vs the BIKMUNNI screenshot alone, it would already seem likely that BIKMUNNI did not leak the -,- end corner base. 
<br>

It's not just up to that though, including that, the proof for either viewpoint is as follows;
<br>

'''Arguments for BIKMUNNI leaking'''<br>

#Discord DMs that contain a deal offered without genuineness of assent and no proof that any payment occured to substantiate said deal. 
#Testimony from orsond, who has a high degree of conflict of interest
#A FITMC video which draws all its information from the previous two sources and takes other significant creative liberties (Such as Russians Stealing Krobar01's stashes, or not naming Harrissssonn, the main user of BoatTP in this context)
<br>

'''Arguments for BIKMUNNI not leaking'''<br>

#BIKMUNNI's financial records showing no payment occuring
#BIKMUNNI's proxy records showing that the Fifth Column members were not brought to the Corner base by him, that they arrived all at once, and that they killed him back to spawn
#The extended gap between BIKMUNNI's disingenuous discussion with orsond about selling the base, and when orsond messaged him 'good making business'
#The existence of other disingenuous sales discussions concerning Fifth Column's passage to the base, by P529 and others  
#P529's DMs with zipoffs which establish that zipoffs was there, that he was open to TPing the Fifth Column to Corner Base, and that he intended to work with badinek to achieve this
<br>

In other words it seems highly unlikely that BIKMUNNI engaged in any foul play concerning Corner Base, and that the purported evidence suggesting otherwise is tainted by conflict of interest on orsond's part between adhering to NPOV and keeping his insiders secure.
--[[User:Joey Coconut1|Joey Coconut1]] ([[User talk:Joey Coconut1|talk]]) 18:25, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
<br>


'''Concerning orsonds Cyberbullying of BIKMUNNI and the reduction of Harm'''<br>

I am posting this in a separate section altogether as it represents a totally different discussion. Your third argument in your previous post misunderstands what I said in my initial comment. This is NOT a discussion of the removal of any and all content from the wiki that involves minors; it's anyways an entirely separate discussion. My point was not that BIKMUNNI leaked the base and shouldnt be talked about because he is a child, that is a mischaracterization.
<br>

What this discussion IS, however, is one concerning your [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying cyberbullying] of BIKMUNNI through the spread of rumors about him in places including but not limited to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlktcgxUWBY youtube] and this wiki. It is even more inappropriate for someone of your age to cyberbully someone of BIKMUNNI's age. Rumormongering should be left behind in secondary school. That is my point. Agree with me or don't, that's entirely up to you.
<br>
I ask that you please examine objectively what you've been doing with respect to this subject, and if you would still be supportive of such activities should your roles be reversed. You have directly caused a minor to be portrayed in an extremely negative light to the audience of nearly a million people that have already watched that video. How can you talk of 'reducing harm' caused by the wiki, when you have directly enabled that to happen and also actively work with the content creator that published that? Even if he actually did leak, you presenting that information to FITMC is still immoral based on what you have said. If you're going to try and claim a moral high ground, especially on something like this, you need only look in a mirror to see the real one that is causing harm to children. Your goal here seems to be to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing#Point-illustrating edit disruptively] through edit warring and spreading misinformation in an effort to bully away people that do not share your viewpoint. <br>
Why are you editing this wiki if you are not interested in being objective?<br>

--[[User:Joey Coconut1|Joey Coconut1]] ([[User talk:Joey Coconut1|talk]]) 18:25, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------Good morning - lets take this from the top:


'''Astroturfing'''

If my conflict of interest is put into question on this wiki, I must also raise your conflict of interest. On multiple occasions it has been documented on this wiki that you have allowed antisemitic and insensitive builds to be built under your watch at Block Game Mecca, conducted spread of disinformation, coups, nukes and other kinds of backhanded behaviour, only for it to be hard removed from the wiki on your behalf by another wiki admin, Leijurv. I am with the understanding that these edits have now been made to your page by other contributors of the wiki under your duress.   

Further more, lets take a look at some statistics from some very popular personality pages:
{| class="wikitable"
|+A sample of joey_coconuts editing of notable pages
!Page
!Page length
!Number of Edits
!Distinct Authors
!Edits by Joey_Coconut (units)
!Edits by Joey_Coconut (%)
|-
|Fit
|14,637
|222
|101
|18
|8%
|-
|Popbob
|8,098
|361
|131
|18
|4.9%
|-
|Jared2013
|11,915
|73
|31
|4
|5.4%
|-
|iTristan
|8,530
|115
|59
|5
|4.3%
|-
|Joey_Coconut
|19,417
|159
|30
|110
|69%
|}
I find it very strange that pages of more prominent members of the community have received considerably less editing by Joey than his own page. Around March 2021, it appears that other contributors of the wiki agreed with this sentiment and started editing what was then the largest and most biased page on the wiki. It is no longer one of the largest single subject pages on the wiki but is still the largest about a single player edited by the page's subject.

'''P529s testament is a conflict of interest'''

There is a strong conflict of interest here, as you, Henry, Leijurv (wiki admins) and P529 belong to the same association, The Spawnmasons. It goes without saying that your group has been heavily impacted by my groups in game activities. It was also P529 who was impacted by this grief the most out of the members listed at this base and he has a loose history with BIKMUNNI. 

'''Cyberbullying'''

As you are well aware, 2b2t is an anarchy community that has no rules and unfortunately this argument is has no place in the community. If you or anyone is looking for a more moderated environment, I would recommend [https://www.planetminecraft.com/servers/tag/smps/ Planet Minecraft's list of moderated SMP servers] as your first port of call.

Administrators of the wiki, Liejurv and Joey_Coconut, were involved in a cyberbullying episode involving a mentally ill player called [[0neb]]. Joey ran a discord group dedicated to the manipulation and gaslighting of this individual. Leijurv manipulated and tormented this individual into believing very wild ideas about his and other Spawnmason activities on the server regarding NOCOM.

'''Administrator conflict of interest'''

The wiki is controlled by a small cabal of Spawnmason members who seek to disseminate a biased and corrupt view of 2b2t history for their personal benefit and for their friends and Spawnmason members as a whole.  This has been documented multiple times on [[2b2t Wiki:Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff]].

There is a natural hostility towards me and members of The Fifth Column, as we have played in a style that has negatively impacted the operations of your group. I find it very alarming that you would allude to my use of this wiki as being solely for "concerning controversial subjects" that I am involved with, considering the way that admins and Spawnmason members have a long history of blanking truthful edits I have made to protect their public image.

[[User:Orsond|Orsond]] ([[User talk:Orsond|talk]]) 20:33, 30 November 2022 (UTC)


<br>
'''Please keep discussion to the topic at hand'''<br>

Orsond, I'll begin by pointing out you have not successfully refuted any points I made in my previous post concerning the discussion at hand. Not one. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Ad hominem] attacks against the person making the edit =/= refutations for the reasoning behind their edits. Ad hominem attacks are an obstacle to effective cooperation and are a barrier to achieving consensus. To put it simply, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks comment on the contribution and NOT the contributor].

<br>
'''Further statement concerning ad hominim attacks'''<br>

BGM was run by Slappnbadkids with the help of others, not including me. Please feel free to take up your complaints about BGM with Slappn if you are so concerned, but, as you have also said in one of your later arguments, '2b2t is an anarchy community that has no rules'. Beyond this, I have not edited the Joey_Coconut page in over a year besides to change namespaces for it. That was a voluntary choice that I did not need to make, and one that I haven't thought much about since. In that year I have authored many other pages, as I have done for the last 2 1/2 years, which include a wide range of topics, and even the orsond page (after you asked me to write it because you didnt want to write it yourself). I provide that service to any regular players that approach me - even people like Dima788 and LightningB0lt44. I hardly see how page-length is even an argument - as a staff member, I am responsible for enforcing the rules, not for making sure respective page lengths or edit counts conform to individuals' ideas on what is or isn't 'relevant'. Later on you also mentioned that "Joey ran a discord group dedicated to the manipulation and gaslighting of [0Neb]", while failing to mention that you yourself also participated in that group, and in the same vein enabled the aforementioned 'nukes' of r/2b2t uncensored to occur by creating the bot that did the nuke, and also did so willingly. These arguments on your part are [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda propaganda] in that you fail to mention a high degree of involvement in these activities on your part.
<br>

This segment is, again, however, unrelated to the topic at hand, and I answer only for clarity's sake. 
<br>

'''You have not responded to any major point I have argued'''<br>

To reiterate, you have failed to respond to nearly any arguments I have presented over why BIKMUNNI did not transport the Fifth Column to Corner Base, and why it was zipoffs and/or badinek that did so. All you have even mentioned is P529's involvement, and you did not refute any of the evidence presented from him, instead opting to claim that P529 was somehow disproportionately impacted by the grief of Corner Base and that by virtue of that and me knowing him all testimony from him is tainted. That doesn't make sense as the bulk of his testimony comes in the form of logs of Discord DMs with zipoffs; it's not statements, it is images. If the image was somehow prejudicial that would be different, but that is not the case. 
<br>
You have also not disputed your significant conflict of interest with this topic, instead opting to make ad Hominem attacks against me (the editor) instead of the content in thepage (the edit). The other administrators are not even participating in this discussion, so I am incredibly confused why you have also opted to make ad Hominem attacks against them. I am furthermore confused that you have mentioned [[2b2t Wiki:Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff]] at all. You do not grasp the circumstances in which that occurred considering how you have mentioned the page, but I'll bring you up to speed. In short, an old administration was removed from its position on the wiki because of the poor job it did in running the wiki. This was achieved through an overwhelming '''community vote'''. The community was consulted and the community spoke.
<br>
I presume the page you ''actually'' wanted to bring up was [[2b2t Wiki:Proposed Changes to 2b2t Wiki Staff v2]], which was a vote for my demotion that was put up by a rookie editor that felt I was inactive on 2b2t and was unhappy with the rule-set I helped author (which is still largely in effect today). That vote was only put up by the stewards because he lied to them about what was going on in the wiki. After the sterwards were approached concerning that, the staff team was told we could take the vote down and handle it internally, as a staff time. As a staff team, we ''voluntarily'' left the vote up, and it confirmed what we had thought, which was that the arguments presented were totally unfounded.
Why are you bringing any of this up, though? This is not related to the subject at hand and will derail productive discussion. I would appreciate if you would please discuss Corner Base. I again respond for the sake of clarity, and I would appreciate if you could restrict your response to Corner Base.
<br>

'''Concerning orsonds Cyberbullying of BIKMUNNI and the reduction of Harm (continued)'''<br>

This cyber-bullying discussion has been incredibly confusing to me. First, I brought up how your conduct towards BIKMUNNI is inappropriate, as he is a young kid, and you have exposed him to a large audience in an extremely negative light, for something he didn't do. That is wildly inappropriate, especially for an adult to do, and also meets the definition for [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse abuse] since it is designed to defame him and protect insiders. I brought this up, and asked you to give the kid a break with this. Your response was to 
 "...recommend a change in editorial policy so that all references of minors, regardless of negative or positive actions, from removed from the wiki." 

Which is not realistic as that would require significant invasions of privacy for no other reason than to prove a point. 
This argument you made is a major mischaracterization of what I originally said, and is also a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Strawman]. 
<br>

I again brought up that you are [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying cyberbullying] BIKMUNNI through the spread of rumors about him in places including but not limited to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlktcgxUWBY youtube] and this wiki. Your response of 
 "As you are well aware, 2b2t is an anarchy community that has no rules and unfortunately this argument is has no place in the community. If you or anyone is looking for a more moderated environment, I would recommend [https://www.planetminecraft.com/servers/tag/smps/ Planet Minecraft's list of moderated SMP servers] as your first port of call."
undermines your previous ostensible concern about the well-being of minors being represented on the wiki. It directly contradicts the spirit of your previous recommendation of 'removing all references or minors from the wiki.'
<br>

Considering you keep flip-flopping on what your opinion actually is here, it appears this is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing#Failure_or_refusal_to_%22get_the_point%22 disruptive editing] designed to derail productive discussion. You have [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts moved goalposts] several times with this discussion, I ask that you please examine your position more carefully and refrain from doing so, as that gets us both nowhere.
<br>

'''You have not responded to any major point I have argued, revisited'''<br>

Considering the length of this response, I will reiterate my most important point: You have not properly refuted a single point I have argued, and have instead resorted to ad Hominem attacks upon myself and the other wiki staff (who I furthermore reiterate are not editing either the page or the discussion page), and moving goalposts concerning the cyberbullying discussion. You are so dedicated to persuing the aforementioned ad hominem attacks that you have revised your previous comment to add more cells to the table with data concerning my edits to a number of pages on well-known players. This doesn't strengthen your argument about BIKMUNNI leaking Corner Base. It does, however, show that you are not interested in editing constructively. That coupled with everything else leads back to a point I made in a previous comment: [https://2b2t.miraheze.org/wiki/Orsond your account] and [https://2b2t.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Orsond its usage] on the wiki appear strongly to be a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Single-purpose_account#General_test Single-purpose account]. While a certain degree of additional leeway must exist considering the somewhat limited scope of the 2b2t wiki, this furthermore suggests that you have difficulty in editing in a non-biased manner and avoiding [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#ADVOCACY spreading propaganda] concerning controversial subjects you are involved in. You rarely edit this wiki, and when you do, it tends to be when there is drama happening.
<br>
I ask again that you please sit down and think about why you are editing this page. You lack any firm arguments to support the edits you are making, and appear to be attempting to disrupt the everyday function of this wiki. This is not constructive. Stop trying to claim a moral high ground. Start engaging about the topic at hand.<br>

--[[User:Joey Coconut1|Joey Coconut1]] ([[User talk:Joey Coconut1|talk]]) 23:53, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

{{ping|Orsond}} Hi, do you have any further arguments to make concerning the respective topics and points I have laid out over the previous few posts, or may I complete this draft page?
--[[User:Joey Coconut1|Joey Coconut1]] ([[User talk:Joey Coconut1|talk]]) 21:14, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

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'''Orsond's Conflict of Interest'''

You have a clear conflict of interest in supporting a mason and friends favourable outcome to this article. You have a history of weaponising the wiki against the enemies of you and your associates. For example, the narrative that [[Zetrax]] leaked your bases to me (which makes a good portion of his own wiki article). In reality, I had these coords as you invited me to those bases prior to the Imps 2 drama and I convinced Zetrax to join us in nuking them. Your claim that Zetrax leaked them is just a cover for your incompetence managing the roster at those bases.


'''Further statement concerning ad hominim attacks'''

This is absolutely laughable. You have claimed that my use of this wiki is to promote propaganda. You have claimed in great detail that I am a cyberbully which certainly has not kept to the topic at hand.

'''Response to arguments for BIKMUNNI not leaking:'''
# BIKMUNNI's financial records are not public and evidence has not been provided. Providing them would release both parties personal information.
# It is in BIKMUNNI's best interest to scrub the proxy records as he was the one that leaked this base.
# The extended gap in our DMs are deleted messages. This is a very common way of working with insiders.
# I am not aware of any "other disingenuous sales discussions" regarding the base. If you are referring to some conversion between BIK and P5, I was not privy to them but it is very common in cases of double agents feign in conversation.
# P529's DMs with zipoffs (if they exist?) establish a willingness to teleport us but do not provide adequate evidence to place him as the person who provided the TP. The conversation between BIMUNNI and I predates zipoffs arrival at the corner by weeks. The fifth column based in the end corner for weeks before the grief. 


[[User:Orsond|Orsond]] ([[User talk:Orsond|talk]]) 23:00, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================
'''Orsond’s Conflct of Interest'''<br>

You still have not refuted your significant conflict of interest in this topic. I will repeat what I have said concerning that in light of this.<br>

Orsond,
As per my previous post[s], you cannot be considered a reliable source because of significant [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest conflicts of interest] arising from the nature of your involvement in this subject. You have a strong incentive to spread disinformation, to promote distrust in organizations in opposition to you, to protect insiders, and to also uphold a public image of protecting insiders. On one hand, you have these obligations, and on the other, upolding[sic] basic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view NPOV]. <br>

In light of your inability to prove you do not have a conflict of interest, I must recommend that direct testimony from you not be considered if it cannot be substantiated by a reliable source.<br>

[https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+spaghetti+at+the+wall+and+see+what+sticks Throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks] with respect to allegations of me ‘weaponizing the wiki’ is not a counter argument for your own conflicts of interest. You haven’t properly researched the incident you cited in your previous comment. I know this because all information on the Zetrax page concerning him griefing bases I was at was added there by Zetrax himself in [https://2b2t.miraheze.org/w/index.php?title=Zetrax&type=revision&diff=66148&oldid=66140 this edit]. The problematic edit I believe you have in mind occurred over a year ago and was resolved by my working with Zetrax directly after all parties were able to operate fully informed on the situation. <br>  

Why did you bring this up at all up in the first place instead of just disputing the points I argued or disputing what I have presented as serious conflicts of interest on your part? I do not have direct testimony that can be called into question by you asserting that I do have a conflict of interest.<br>


'''Statement Concerning Orsond's editing being 'Propaganda'''<br>

I have absolutely claimed that your use of the wiki is to promote propaganda in previous posts. This is a claim I stand by.
In this very talk page you have 
#Attempted to abuse [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view NPOV] seemingly without even reading the page itself 
#Briefly promoted the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tag_team brigading] of this talk page through a [https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t_Uncensored/comments/z8g522/sorry_sweetie_i_think_i_would_know_who_teleported/ reddit]
#Tried to use FitMC videos (which are inaccurate and often slanted to a certain viewpoint)  as proof for your viewpoint
#Marginalized complaints about your behavior 
#Pushed sole blame onto others for negative activities you have also been involved in
#Have been caught lying in some of the following sections
#Appear to be pushing a campaign of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_assassination Character assassination] on BIKMUNNI, and are attempting to use this wiki to perpetuate that view. This is also discussed in detail in following sections.<br>


'''Concerning orsonds Cyberbullying of BIKMUNNI and the reduction of Harm (continued, continued)'''<br>

I have also asserted that you are cyberbullying BIKMUNNI, and this absolutely does keep to the topic at hand. I brought this up in the hopes that you would stop spreading what appears strongly to be false rumors about BIKMUNNI to a wide audience. Based on the proof I have seen, I see it as highly unlikely that BIKMUNNI transported the Fifth Column to the -,- End Corner. As such, I have pointed out what strongly appears to be a case of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying cyberbullying] towards BIKMUNNI. It appears to arise partially from necessity to protect your own insiders, as well as partially to directly defame BIKMUNNI for reasons covered in ’Response to Response to arguments for BIKMUNNI not leaking’.<br>

You have repeatedly changed opinions on this topic. You starting by sending contextless screenshots of you talking with BIKMUNNI to FitMC in order for him to post them in a video. Then when confronted with the ramifications of that in this discussion, you backtracked to suggesting all content involving minors be removed from the wiki entirely in order to 'limit harm caused to minors'. This is a far cry from sending content to FitMC. Then when confronted again you stated that my argument had no place in the community and recommended [https://www.planetminecraft.com/servers/tag/smps/ Planet Minecraft's list of moderated SMP servers] as my ‘port of call’. <br>


After I brought up this flip-flopping in my previous comment, you brushed it off altogether by saying that it does not relate to the topic. It absolutely does, in that it pertains directly towards your conduct with the topic. Based on my examination of the evidence, I firmly believe that BIKMUNNI is innocent. I don’t have a stake in this; it doesn’t matter to me if he is or isn’t innocent. What does matter to me is that what is written on this page reflects what actually happened, and that someone that hasn't done something wrong be protected from allegations saying otherwise without good reason.<br>

Because he seems to be innocent, you, by extension, appear to be trying to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation defame] him, especially considering past dealings on your part with BIKMUNNI (which are covered in the 'Concerning BIKMUNNI Warning others about Fifth Column’s activities under a month before the End corner was reached' section). You have no reliable evidence for your viewpoint. I brought this up so I could make an appeal to you to leave BIKMUNNI alone and to stop spreading what strongly appears to be rumors about him. If he really did teleport the Fifth Column to the -,- border - '''prove it'''.<br>

Your edit pattern with this Cyberbullying discussion again leads me to believe it is nothing more than [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing#Failure_or_refusal_to_%22get_the_point%22 disruptive editing].
<br>

'''Reminder that all your evidence for BIKMUNNI leaking has been refuted in my previous post'''<br>

You did not protect against any of the arguments I have made concerning that lack of validity of the evidence you have presented. To rephrase and expand with other statements I have made, here is what I have presented:
#The discord DM used as proof has no proof payment occurred and has had doubt cast over it as to BIKMUNNI’s genuineness of assent
#Your direct testimony cannot be trusted because of significant conflicts of interest on your part that I have discussed in depth above and below.
#The FitMC video you have brought up several times in this discussion was made using information from those previous two sources, which themselves are already unreliable. A content creator that takes significant creative liberties and is often criticized for being inaccurate is not likely to take questionable information and make it become undisputed truth.<br>

Keeping the above arguments in mind, you currently do not have a single piece of reliable evidence to suggest that BIKMUNNI BoatTP’d the Fifth Column to the  -,- End Corner. 
<br>


'''Response to Response to arguments for BIKMUNNI not leaking'''<br>

# You are correct in that BIKMUNNI’s financial records cannot be made public.
#It would be in BIKMUNNI’s best interest to scrub proxy records if he were guilty. Him being guilty doesn’t make any sense considering that he was killed by Fifth Column members when they began to grief the base, and you have not disputed this. This is contained in the proxy records too. Harming a loyal insider so thoroughly as to send them to spawn from the most remote point on the server is not an orthodox way of thanking an insider. I explore other reasons why he is not guilty that further reinforce this in the following two sections, as well as the remainder of this section.
#If the extended gap in your DMs is deleted message, there is no good reason why all messages relevant to BIKMUNNI potentially insiding were not also deleted. He is also clearly confused when you reach out to him to thank him for doing business after 9 days of silence. Considering your direct testimony is tainted by significant conflict of interest (discussed in depth above), and considering the BIKMUNNI has made no such claims about deletions - it’s your word against his. He also admittedly has a conflict of interest, Existing independently of both of your statements is the screenshot with a significant gap  between BIKMUNNI disingenuously discussing the sale of the base, and you thanking him for his business. Business that you cannot prove occurred. His actions are consistent with that of a confused person, which makes sense considering you thanked him for his business after finalizing no deal and remaining silent for over a week.
#I have direct testimony from P529 that he also disingenuously discussed the sale of the base with members of the Fifth Column. He does not have a significant conflict of interest because of him knowing BIKMUNNI, and furthermore has additional incentive to be truthful considering it would be beneficial knowledge for him to know for sure who leaked the base.
#P529’s DMs indeed establish a willingness to BoatTP Fifth Column members to the end border on the part of zipoffs. They also name an accomplice (badinek) and establish that they planned to BoatTp the Fifth Column together. Zipoffs had left the world border. Badinek BoatTp’d him back, and the grief of the corner base happened in close succession to this return. Putting all this together, it paints a picture where zipoffs looks incredibly guilty. You are completely incorrect in saying that the “conversion with BIKMUNNI predates zipoffs reaching the corner by several weeks”. I will address this along with the rest of the DM contents in their own section entirely. Beyond this, zipoffs has a sign at the corner dated June 22, 2022. It is viewable on the archive. The world download was taken before the base was griefed, and Terbin has strong integrity and would not tamper with the WDL. June 22 is before July 1 (when the sales discussion with BIKMUNNI occurred).<br>


'''A breakdown of the screenshots of chat between BIKMUNNI and Orsond'''<br>
I will use FitMC's video as a convenient location that shows the chat screenshots in question. I take no information from the video itself, and only from the screenshot.<br>

Starting at 7:27 into FitMC’s [https://youtu.be/jlktcgxUWBY?t=447 video], chat screenshots of a conversation between BIKMUNNI and Orsond are displayed where they discuss the sale of transportation to the -,- End Corner base. First and foremost, the messages displayed are sent on July 1, 2022 - only 9 days before the grief occurred. This means it is completely impossible for both of the claims I list below to be true:
#That BIKMUNNI tp’d the Fifth Column to the end corner
#That Fifth Column based at the end corner for weeks <br>

You have claimed both of these things. They are mutually exclusive considering you only talked to BIKMUNNI about selling the base 9 days previously. This lends further credence to the argument that you are spreading rumors about BIKMUNNI - I smell a lie from you.<br>

You are clearly haggling with him in the displayed screenshot too, meaning that it is a fresh discussion with low probability of having started earlier.
<br>

An additional screenshot is shown of the DMs at 9:33 in FitMC’s [https://youtu.be/jlktcgxUWBY?t=573 video]. It shows you telling BIKMUNNI “nice doing business with you”. He responds with “What” and is clearly confused about what you’re actually talking about. This is followed by “Mfer[sic], why did you grief shit And leak the tp exploit” almost half an hour later. An insider would be in the loop about a grief happening and would not behave in such a confused manner. It’s also incredibly unlikely he predicted he would be screenshotted and broadcast to an audience of a million FitMC viewers and said that to look innocent. Following this message, you said “Everyone knows you tp’d me” to BIKMUNNI. This appears as an [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying#Verbal bullying tactic] that reinforces to BIKMUNNI that you are spreading rumors about him. This statement is not being used to convey truth - it is being used to gloat about reputational damage caused to BIKMUNNI.<br>

This is flat out Cyberbullying. It is also highly inappropriate considering you are an adult and BIKMUNNI is not. Where is the ‘limiting of harm to minors’ that you so discussed earlier before flip-flopping away from that viewpoint to the ‘it’s anarchy’ argument?
<br>

'''Concerning BIKMUNNI Warning others about Fifth Column’s activities under a month before the End corner was reached'''<br>

Upon review of my DMs with BIKMUNNI, he specifically warned me that the Fifth Column was planning to lure Spawnmasons into a prioban trap at a fake base and that members of the Fifth Column had approached him to design the prioban trap lag machine. This was in May of 2022 - less than a month before Harrissssonn reached the -,- End Corner and started the base there. Why would a loyal Fifth Column insider crucial to the priobanning scheme warn me (essentially a stranger to him) about it, and then flip-flop only a few weeks later, only then to be outed as an insider by the people that supposedly sent him to inside the end corner base in the first place. it appears that BIKMUNNI did not do what the Fifth Column wanted him to do in either scenario (considering no Spawmasons were priobanned by lag machines and considering the mountain of evidence proving he did not bring the Fifth Column to the -,- End Corner), and that they were not pleased concerning this. As a result, Orsond started a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation defamation campaign] on him when it proved to be convenient and easy. 
<br>

'''Conclusion'''<br>

Orsond,
I have refuted all arguments you have presented. <br>
I have successfully protected most of the arguments I have presented.<br>
I have caught you in flat out lies.<br>
I have uncovered significant evidence that what you have done and are doing to BIKMUNNI is genuinely Cyberbullying. <br>
You have an incredible conflict of interest with respect to BIKMUNNI. <br>
You have been editing disruptively. <br>
You are spreading misinformation. <br>
You are editing on a single-purpose account.<br>
You are editing in bad faith. <br>

Why?<br>
--[[User:Joey Coconut1|Joey Coconut1]] ([[User talk:Joey Coconut1|talk]]) 04:23, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

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Joey I think I am at the end of the discussion here. You act in extremely bad faith in order to further your social climbing ambitions in this community. In this instance, you keep on using ad hominem attacks to discredit me regarding this event. 

There are a few points I would like to make before moving on: 

* You were not present at this event. Your testimony or opinion to the history of this event is worth exactly zero. 
* You are once again proving to the community that have used your position on wiki staff to astroturf you and your friends at the determent of others.
* You have claimed that I have committed cyberbullying when you lead a vicious harassment campaign against mentally ill player 0neb for over a year.
* You could reasonably edited this page to say that the leaker is disputed and have moved on with your life.

I think you should take a step back from the computer and consider your involvement in the administration of the wiki.

[[User:Orsond|Orsond]] ([[User talk:Orsond|talk]]) 05:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)


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Piece of evidence pointing to Bikmunni being innocent provided by myself. A screenshot of a conversation between me and orsond in which he describes the Fit-video in which Bikmunni is blamed as 'character assassination'.
In the end just a witness testimony, the release of which is motivated by a personal conflict.
[[File:Characterassassination.png|thumb]]


[[User:Franknificant|Franknificant]] ([[User talk:Franknificant|talk]]) 17:00, 9 December 2022 (UTC)